Скрипка -антиджазовый инструмент?

[NbP]

Американские джазмены всегда относились с пренебрежением к скрипке в джазе; при этом очень многие из них играли или учились на ней-А.Тэйтум,Б.Уэбстер,Билл Эванс,Рэй Нэнс,О.Колман; и множество.Кроме того самые выдающиеся скрипачи почти всегда играли и на других инструментах:Граппелли-ф-но,Понти -саксофон и кларнет,Локквуд- труба,поляки(Зейферт,Урбаньяк)-тенор саксофон.
В области легкожанровой музыки - и европейской,и американской- всегда были популярные композиторы,основным инструментов которых была скрипка.Например известный американский песенный композитор Виктор Янг,создатель таких джазовых стандартов как
My Foolish Heart ,Stella By Starlight ,When I Fall in Love

и других,был скрипачом.
О классической музыке уже нечего говорить!
Тем более удивительно ,что главные в истории джаза скрипачи: Эдди Саут,Ст.Граппелли,Джо Венути,Cтафф Смит,Джон Фриго и упомянутые европейцы не создали ни одного произведения ,считающимся общепринятым стандартом.
Почему?

[Califf]

Может быть, из-за интонационности?

[NbP]

Может быть, из-за интонационности?

Вы должны это объяснить.

[Califf]

Вы должны это объяснить.

Это скорее на смутном ощущении...

Каждый инструмент, как человеческий голос, обладает характерными интонациями. И у джаза, как у стиля музыки, есть какая-то своя голосовая интонация, в которая скрипка не очень вписывается.

[NbP]

Это скорее на смутном ощущении...

Каждый инструмент, как человеческий голос, обладает характерными интонациями. И у джаза, как у стиля музыки, есть какая-то своя голосовая интонация, в которая скрипка не очень вписывается.

Скрипка и виолончель-это два инструмента ,наиболее подходяжие по сравнению с другими для передачи интонаций человеческого голоса.Поэтому скрипка и родственные ей смычковые инструменты являются частью фольклора в разных музыкальных культурах.
Только эти интонации пения,а тут требуются интонации разговора,где духовые подходят лучше всего.

[ccruisse]

Американские джазмены всегда относились с пренебрежением к скрипке в джазе; при этом очень многие из них играли или учились на ней-А.Тэйтум,Б.Уэбстер,Билл Эванс,Рэй Нэнс,О.Колман; и множество.Кроме того самые выдающиеся скрипачи почти всегда играли и на других инструментах:Граппелли-ф-но,Понти -саксофон и кларнет,Локквуд- труба,поляки(Зейферт,Урбаньяк)-тенор саксофон.
В области легкожанровой музыки - и европейской,и американской- всегда были популярные композиторы,основным инструментов которых была скрипка.Например известный американский песенный композитор Виктор Янг,создатель таких джазовых стандартов как
My Foolish Heart ,Stella By Starlight ,When I Fall in Love

и других,был скрипачом.
О классической музыке уже нечего говорить!
Тем более удивительно ,что главные в истории джаза скрипачи: Эдди Саут,Ст.Граппелли,Джо Венути,Cтафф Смит,Джон Фриго и упомянутые европейцы не создали ни одного произведения ,считающимся общепринятым стандартом.
Почему?

Может быть, это как-то связано с историей джаза. Насколько я знаю джаз возник в результате слияния африканской и европейской музыки в конце XIX в начале ХХ века в США, где положение афроамериканцев было не из лучших. И скрипка никакой связи с африканскими ритмами не имеет. Но это только мое предположение, возможно я ошибаюсь.

[NbP]

THE VIOLIN IN BLACK MUSIC HISTORY
Dominique-René de Lerma

Pop culture can be a fog that obscures a heritage in favor of economic advantage. There are those, for example, who are astonished to learn that Black composers have been making contributions to so-called “European” classical music at least since the mid-1500s, that opera flourishes in Nigeria and, since the end of apartheid, now in South Africa. When I was a guest, along with William Dawson, at the College of the Virgin Islands in the 1970s, the students unhesitatingly rejected Dawson’s symphony because there were violins in the orchestra.
The violin had been popular in France well before it was accepted as a legitimate instrument elsewhere, mainly because it had been used for dance music. Within that tradition arose the Chevalier de Saint-Georges (1745-1799), born in Guadeloupe, child of a French father and a slave. His father took the liaison seriously and made arrangements for the little boy to study the violin so that he would prove an acceptable dilettante within social circles when the family moved to Paris. The unexpected happened, and the child proved himself equal, if not superior, to all violinists in Europe. He was director of two major Parisian orchestras, with which he performed his exceptionally virtuosic concertos. He was sought after by Mozart when, as a young man, the Austrian visited France seeking employment, and it was Saint-Georges who led the six “Paris” symphonies by Haydn, and arranged for their publication.
Slightly later was George Bridgetower (1780-1860), a prodigy who spent his youth in the same court where Haydn was composer, who at age nine was heard in recital in Paris. When he moved to London, he was in the orchestra that Haydn conducted for the première of his “London” symphonies. Later, Bridgetower secured a leave of absence from the British court to visit the continent. Here he met Beethoven, who joined him in the first performance of the latter’s penultimate violin sonata (ironically now known as the Kreutzer, because Beethoven had his customary falling out with both friends and patrons, and dedicated the work to Rudolph Kreutzer, a former colleague of Saint-Georges, who refused to play it because it was too difficult and, besides, had already been played).
Before considering the American scene, mention must be made of Samuel Coleridge-Taylor (1875-1912), born in England to a British lady and a medical student from Sierra Leone. While quite young he began as a violinist, but was identified as a very talented composer. Just before his early death, he wrote a violin concerto for America’s first major female violinist, Maud Powell.
By looking at countries with a substantial Black population, but a social environment unlike that in this country, we can see better the genius of the race -- Cuba, for example, where Black talent has been relatively free to evolve. For one thing, the vast population has at least some degree of African ancestry. Here is found José White y La Fitte (1835-191 who, while only a teenager, gave his debut recital, accompanied by no less that Louis Moreau Gottschalk, the first international superstar in American music, who was touring the Caribbean. He insisted that White go to Paris, to complete his training. There, at the distinguished Conservatoire, White studied with Jean Delphin Alard, one of the most respected teachers of the time. White did so well that he was graduated in only one year and carried off first prize in the school’s annual competition (the next year, Pablo Sarasate was the winner). For a while, White was active in Spain, but he was called back to Paris to substitute on the faculty in Alard’s absence. His music included a violin concerto, as well as some fiendishly difficult music, one set of which became the obligatory competition piece for the Conservatoire. He counted Gounod, Rossini, and other contemporaries among his admirers and friends. When he returned to Cuba, at one particular concert the audience became unruly and sang a song of liberation from Spain. White left his homeland and spent the rest of his life touring Europe and the Americas. He was even engaged for concerts in Boston and New York, accepted there because he was Cuban, spoke Spanish, and was not considered Black.
Another Cuban was Amadeo Roldán y Gardes (1900-1939), although he was born in Paris. He did did not set foot on Cuban soil until he was 19, already a concert artist, but a multi-talented musician. He became concertmaster of the orchestra in Havana, and also found time to teach and to establish the conservatory that still bears his name. Cuban music up to this time was strongly under the influence of Italian models. As a composer, Roldán changed this dramatically, writing music that very overtly had African roots, as seen in his Rítmicas of 1930, the first works ever composed for an ensemble of only percussion instruments.
Had it not been for the repressive burden of slavery, Black American could have produced such figures far more easily than was the case – not only regarding the violin, but as choral composers such as Maurício Nunes-García (1767-1830) in Brazil, who was court composer to the Portuguese royal family when they went into exile during Napoleon’s occupation of their country.
Joseph Antonia Emidee (1775-1835) from Guinea, spent his childhood as a slave in Brazil, but was taken by his master later to Lisbon, where he learned the violin and soon played in the city’s opera productions of Mozart, Haydn, Gluck, and Cimarosa. He was kidnapped to perform hornpipes, jigs, and reels for the sailors’ dancing on a frigate for seven years. He managed to escape when the boat was docked at Falmouth in 1799. Here he learned also the flute, cello, and clarinet but was termed “an exquisite violinist, a good composer, who led at all the concertos of the country.” His music reached the attention of the impressario, Solomon, who was responsible for Haydn’s two seasons in London, and a concert of his music was presented – although, fearing overt prejudice on the part of London’s population, the sponsors did not invite him to attend.
Ignatius Sancho (1729-1780), orphaned on the ship that was to carry the family into slavery, spent his adulthood in England. There he attracted the attention of the Duke of Montagu, who had been intrigued with the belief that Africans might have superior intelligence. The duke taught Sancho to read and write. Later he moved in a circle of artists and became a particular friend of the theatre manager, David Garrick. He was one of the first Black composers to have his music published, although his songs and works for violin (which he played) are only of interest in that regard.
The slave narratives indicate that the violin was, by far, the most popular instrument, quite possibly because it was needed by the slave owners for their dances and, in the most modest circumstances, was the only instrument used. In the North, the two major musicians were violinists, Francis Johnson (1792-1844) of Philadelphia and Newark’s Peter O’Fake (1820-1884), whose ensembles performed for all the important social and musical events. Having Black violinists in the theater pits was so normal that no mention was made of it, but for foreign visitors, such as John Bernard, who attended the productions in Annapolis in 1797. We know next to nothing about those American violinists who populated the all-Black concert and opera orchestras that emerged after slavery, but some had reputations that could not be ignored in the literature. Black violinists continued in the theaters until sound films were introduced, and until wind instruments took their role in jazz. Yet even then, a violinist was often present, customarily the only one who could read music notation. This accounts later for Ray Nance (with Duke Ellington), Eddie South, Stuff Smith, and more recently with Leroy Jenkins.
While we think of Frederick Douglass (1818-1895) in other terms, he was a very dedicated and self-taught violinist, and his son, John Thomas Douglass (1847-1886), was the violin teacher of David Mannes from age 13 (who was to establish the Mannes School of Music in New York). Joseph Henry Douglass, son of the foregoing, belongs to the third generation of family violinists. Educated at the New England Conservatory, he taught later at Howard University.
Will Marion Cook (1869-1944) graduated in violin from Oberlin when 15, and later went to Berlin to study with Joseph Joachim. On his return to the U.S., he contemplated a career as a concert artist, but, proud and very self-assured (especially for the early days of the last century), he was offended when a critic wrote that he was the “best Negro violinist.” Cook rejected the racial reference and is said to have smashed the instrument on the critic’s desk, and swore he would never play again. He entered the National Conservatory of Music in New York, an aggressively integrated institution, where he was a composition pupil of Antonin Dvořák, but remained for only one semester (Cook was never easy to get along with). He then opened up musical theater in New York to Black music and performers, with a series of outstanding works.
The Harlem Renaissance sought the “elevation” of the Black musical heritage (despite the rise of jazz and blues), and again the violin assumed great importance. Kemper Herrald introduced the string quartet to Atlanta and in 1912 Wilberforce University had it own quartet. William Grant Still was violinist and Hall Johnson violist for Eubie Blake’s Shuffle along of 1921, although both became more celebrated in other musical ventures later (and Hall Johnson had been a member of a string quartet in the previous decade).
Another important figure was Clarence Cameron White (1880-1960), whose music was in the repertoire of Jascha Heifetz and remained popular with subsequent musicians, included Joseph Gingold.
Various factors mitigated against the employment of Black symphony musicians in the established orchestras, but standing out in the case of Sanford Allen, who for almost 14 years was the only person of color in the New York Philharmonic. At the end of his stay, he had recorded Roque Cordero’s magnificent violin concerto, which recording won the international prize of the Kousevitzky Foundation as the best recording of the year. In order for him to perform that work with the New York Philharmonic, he had to leave the first violin section, since the rules were that only the concertmaster, of all the ensemble’s violinists, could be soloist with the orchestra.
A large number of violinists made up the membership of the former Symphony of the New World, based in New York, and are found in the Chicago Sinfonietta, both major ensembles designed from the start to be integrated.
The Sphinx Competition was organized by Aaron Dworkin, who, as a graduate violin student at the University of Michigan, was introduced to music of Black composers. Mr. Dworkin, born to Black parents but adopted by a Jewish couple of Czech extraction, became sensitive to the massive absence of Black and Latino string players in American orchestras, so he established the series of annual competitions, held in Detroit. Those of us on the initial jury were astonished by the quality of the contestants, all under the age of 26, but that was when we suspected there would be few others to be found. We were soon proven wrong. The contests are now a dozen years in duration, and the liberal prizes that the winners receive is attracting players on all string instruments out of the closet. Not only is there the monetary awards (not rarely put to good use for lessons or new bows), but there is the prestige of being so signaled, the challenge of auditioning from specified repertoire (which always includes a work by a Black or Latino composer), but the organization provides concerto bookings with major orchestras, provides special educational opportunities and now has engaged an orchestra with tours of the country, not to mention annual concerts presented in Carnegie Hall. Melissa White, who appeared as guest soloist on my campus within the Ben Holt Memorial Concert Series, was then just 13. She has since recorded with Paul Freeman in the Czech Republic, toured several times in Japan (she is fluent in the language), and is a member of the Harlem Quartet, which consists of Sphinx laureates. One other instance of many is the case of Tai Murray, soloist with her hometown orchestra in Chicago, with the Utah Symphony when she was 16, and then with the orchestras of Oakland, St. Louis, San Antonio, Greensboro, and Washington. At age 22, she joined the Chamber Music Society of Lincoln Center, and is a member of the first-rate Ritz Chamber Players, based in Jacksonville.
The very large number of string players discovered by the Sphinx Competition, and the other people inspired by the stories, is on its way to change the orchestral scene most dramatically, and offer far more than ample proof that excellent Black violinists do exist, and we all should know they have always been here, long before the tenor sax and electric guitar.

[ccruisse]

THE VIOLIN IN BLACK MUSIC HISTORY

Интересно. Особенно впечатляет вот это

The very large number of string players discovered by the Sphinx Competition, and the other people inspired by the stories, is on its way to change the orchestral scene most dramatically, and offer far more than ample proof that excellent Black violinists do exist, and we all should know they have always been here, long before the tenor sax and electric guitar.

Но на русском было бы лучше: не все владеют английским.

[NbP]

Можно подумать,что джазовые скрипачи исполняли и исполняют только музыку других,однако все современные скрипачи исполняют в основном свою музыку,кроме Tribute to... Тем не менее хитов нет

[NbP]

И антипопсовый тоже


Отсюда и причины
- отсутствие нижнего регистра
- труднодостижимость грубого тембра
- невозможность самостоятельного овладения.

Первыми два недостатка у скрипки решены технологически; уже видел объявления о поисках педагога по электроскрипке.
Самостоятельное овладение -возможный рецепт для получения грубого звука.